Arnaud DEVELAY caught up with elected Member of the Russian State Duma and Ranking Member of the Duma’s Commission for International Affairs, Maria BUTINA.

Q: Let us start with what has been a crackdown on free speech around the world with the raid on Scott Ritter’s house, the arrest of individuals in the UK for merely posting comments on social networks, and the arrest in France of Telegram founder and CEO Pavel Durov. What can you tell us about this worrying development?

Maria Butina: I view it as purely political in nature. First of all, there’s a saying in Russia that the hand is to be viewed separately from the “master.” While France acted as “the hand,” the “master” is to be found across the ocean in the United States. This reminds me of the case of Alexander Vinnik, who was first arrested in Greece before being extradited to France and then the United States. He was accused of all kinds of crimes which he never committed. It doesn’t mean that the French government is not guilty but they agreed to play along, which is something that makes me sad because France is a great country with a great people. With the Durov arrest, unfortunately, France’s role allows the U.S. to deny responsibility. However, everybody knows what’s going on. It’s a purely politically motivated arrest. It’s a blatant case of double standard where Russia [and China] are being blamed for disregarding freedoms by countries which themselves trample civil liberties. With Durov, there’s also the element of demonizing the person by accusing him of all kinds of things, including hitting his own child, while constantly repeating that he’s Russian [an aggravating factor?]. They did the same thing with me. Despite the report provided by John Durham dismissing any notion of so-called Russian interference, the U.S. media presented me as the key actor behind a plot designed to interfere in U.S. elections. I was called the “Witch.” It’s important for them to portray Russians as devoid of any kind of humanity, as if lacking a soul. Even though the French and Russians fought side by side during the Great Patriotic War, everything today seems forgotten.

Q: So you think this [the Durov case] is all part of a psychological operation aimed at demonizing Russians, a classic case of Russophobia?

Maria Butina: Yes. I call it psychological warfare for the simple reason that I have myself been subjected to it. I have witnessed it firsthand and gone through all of its stages. Many U.S. media outlets first mentioned that “she may be a spy.” Step two consisted in repeating these innuendos. Finally, step three was the actual arrest which was staged with as many artifices and witnesses as possible. The idea was to lure the public like children into believing the narrative. As far as Durov is concerned, the West has been trying to gain control of Telegram for a long time. That’s why they finally decided to snatch him.

Q: Do you believe Durov was kind of naive?

Maria Butina: I believe he was naive only insofar as I was myself also naive a long time ago. He believed in justice. He believed that he could be himself [love his country] while living in an area of the world that has long strived to portray Russia as the evil empire. Durov thought he could be safe in France. The truth is that the only place that is safe for him is the Russian Federation. In that respect, Durov found his own truth.

Q: There were reports that the Russian embassy in Paris unsuccessfully attempted to establish contact with Durov during his detention in violation of the provision bearing on consular assistance as called for by the Vienna Convention. What is your reaction?

Maria Butina: That’s a very serious violation of the rights of a citizen of a foreign country. Local authorities should have notified representatives of the Russian Federation and allowed consular assistance within 72 hours of the arrest. This being said, the West doesn’t abide by any rules anymore. It doesn’t matter whether Durov holds several passports. That’s actually what also happened to me. Consular officers were looking for me after U.S. authorities purposefully altered my date of birth and mis-spelled my name so that the personnel at the embassy couldn’t find me. Is that respectful of the Vienna Convention? This being said and while the West violates international laws, Russia continues to follow them. Somebody has to remain sane in all this.

Q: You wrote a book chronicling your detention in the U.S. [#Prison Diary]. Could you remind our [readers] what happened to you?

Maria Butina: I spent 467 days in detention in the United States stemming from charges of conspiracy to operate as an agent of a foreign power in violation of the Foreign Agents Registration Act (FARA). My convicted was upheld on appeal even though nobody else’s name ever appeared in the court record. How can I conspire with myself? I was a straight A student studying for a Master’s degree and next thing you know, I was finding myself at the heart of the Russian collusion hysteria, standing accused of being this seductress who had slept with many U.S. senators, even though none ever came forward to corroborate this allegation. I was sentenced to 18 months in prison, [and spent] four months in solitary confinement. While I eventually was released and deported, nobody ever apologized for what I had to go through. I will never get this time back either. It was also alleged that I was receiving funds straight from the Kremlin to use while I was in the U.S. Prior to my conviction, the FARA had only been used one time to secure conviction, against an Iranian. I was the first Russian to be targeted on these grounds in 60 years going back to the Red Scare of the 1950s. So after I served time and got deported in October 2019, I decided to write a book which today has been published in Russian, English and Serbian. I hope it will serve as a cautionary tale to people similarly situated that this law can be used against you any time someone who happens to be Russian asks you to do something. I also explain that all the incriminating elements used to convict me are under seal for the next 60 years owing to the fact that they are all fabricated or non-existent.

No names of senators, no evidence of funds. Again, how can one conspire with oneself? Of note, before I was charged and convicted, they showed a movie called Red Sparrow, which tells the story of a Russian seductress who infiltrates U.S. political circles [circus is more appropriate]. I mean, why was I placed in solitary confinement for 117 days? I was not a terrorist hiding in some Afghan mountain! I was just a student! Today, I am deemed an enemy of the United States prohibited from ever setting foot in that country. But you know what? I don’t care.

Q: This is somewhat reminiscent of the Hollywood film Lord of War, starring Nicolas Cage, which purported to retrace the life of Viktor Bout. Obviously, this depiction couldn’t be more removed from reality. Viktor was eventually involved in a swap (with Brittney Griner) in late 2022. More recently, the largest swap since the days of the first Cold War occurred, involving no fewer than 26 political prisoners and spies. What could you tell us about this?

Maria Butina: I actually met Viktor at the airport when he was released and brought back to Russia. I know him and his wife very well. She’s endured so much during the 15 years of her husband’s detention. To your point about the big swap, it happened during the first Cold War in what came to be known as the Spy Bridge. As to whether something similar could happen with Durov, it depends on hard and sometimes long negotiations between the two sides. Russia has for instance tried to bring Viktor back for many years. The big surprise for me is that, despite the fact that the U.S. still has some of its citizens imprisoned in Russia, they would rather try to secure release of some non-citizens like Russian so-called “opposition leaders.” That tells you everything you need to know about their [the U.S.’s] priorities. They prefer to gain release of non-citizens to use them later for propaganda. If I were a U.S. citizen, I would start wondering whether my government’s priority is to protect the interests of its own citizens.

Q: You’re alluding to the purported frustration of Paul Whelan after Griner was chosen over him?

Maria Butina: Well, Paul Whelan was convicted of spying, of course. But they could have chosen Marc Fogel over a person who’s merely a green-card holder, as was the case in the most recent swap.

Q: Hillary Clinton stated in September 2023 that, in her opinion, “it was likely Russia would interfere in the upcoming U.S. presidential election.” In the wake of the ramping up of articles citing your name explicitly and published both in the Wall Street Journal and The Washington Post despite the fact that you’ve been out of the news there since at least 2019, do you think the U.S. establishment might be preparing a smear campaign with you at its center?

Maria Butina: In capitalism, if you can profit from something repeatedly by selling the same thing with the result that people will buy it, then sell it again. If people can again be sold the idea of Russia interfering in the U.S. election process, it will be used. Hillary Clinton claims that “Russians will again interfere in our elections.” I don’t agree with such characterization of the facts. The U.S.’s own report on Russian collusion [by John Durham] concluded that there had never been such interference in the first place. How can she say that something like this will happen again when the original allegations were revealed as being nothing but lies and fabrications? Again, the truth is that the U.S. has spent substantial resources in creating the case of the “evil Russian.” As long as they feel people can be convinced that it’s true, they will resort to using it again. Truth be told, Russia does not care one bit about who wins the election. Sure, Trump said nice things about Russia. Should we not feel a sense of reciprocity to someone who is nice to you? This being said, with Kamala Harris, we have someone who’s come out of nowhere and even though she hasn’t spent time on the campaign trail is running neck and neck with the opposition candidate. I find this strange. In the end, I believe that she has a very good chance because the system can be fixed to get the “right” result. I expect ramped up, anti-Russia rhetoric as we get closer to the election. Why? Because anti-Russia politics is what the U.S. wants and Maria Butina is a perfect foil.

Q: The war in Ukraine has seen a rise in criminal practices linked to various forms of trafficking, in particular trafficking in human beings (complete or organs). How has the war in Ukraine impacted human trafficking? What information on this subject is currently available to the Russian authorities?

Maria Butina: The reports we are getting are awful. Organs are being directly removed from wounded Ukrainian soldiers. Such a practice flies in the [face of the] belief that human beings have souls. Russian troops have entered areas where signs directly advertised the sale of organs. I don’t believe those responsible for such heinous practices will escape God’s punishment. That’s why it is important that you inform Western audiences about what goes on there. Similarly, look at the biolabs. They were literally testing their pathogens on people living nearby. We seized documents relating to how each test sample would be earmarked for 400 USD. They would then proceed on behalf of big pharma to test experimental drugs on locals. Do you know that it is actually against the law to engage in such experimentation in the United States? Russia considers it its sacred duty to put an end to such practices. Any country which looks the other way and allows this to happen in complete disregard for human dignity has abandoned decency. In my opinion, it’s also something that relates to the reasons why people would want to move to Russia under the new decree on spiritual asylum.

Q: President Putin has declared that there won’t be any kind of negotiation with Kyiv, a regime that essentially engages in state-sponsored terrorism. The illegitimate self-proclaimed “president” of Ukraine is, moreover, looking to perpetuate a war which has cost his country nearly half a million casualties against all military logic. In the wake of the Kursk incursion and repeated attempts to shell nuclear facilities, do you believe the situation could spiral out if control?

Maria Butina: Hopefully, it won’t. Obviously, the group of people in Kyiv is not interested in preserving the lives of its own people. Quite the contrary. They will thus continue to escalate in order to justify receiving financial assistance which will then be diverted for their own gain. The idea is to continue stealing as much land as possible. Russia will thus remain steady in pursuing and accomplishing the goals set out at the beginning of the Special Military Operation. It’s tough but we won’t relent until the mission is completed. We know that the real puppet master is in the U.S. and, while we hope to see changes after the next U.S. presidential election, we are not naive enough to think that the conflict will be resolved in 24 hours per Trump’s words.

---

CovertAction Magazine is made possible by subscriptions, orders and donations from readers like you.

Blow the Whistle on U.S. Imperialism

Click the whistle and donate

When you donate to CovertAction Magazine, you are supporting investigative journalism. Your contributions go directly to supporting the development, production, editing, and dissemination of the Magazine.

CovertAction Magazine does not receive corporate or government sponsorship. Yet, we hold a steadfast commitment to providing compensation for writers, editorial and technical support. Your support helps facilitate this compensation as well as increase the caliber of this work.

Please make a donation by clicking on the donate logo above and enter the amount and your credit or debit card information.

CovertAction Institute, Inc. (CAI) is a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization and your gift is tax-deductible for federal income purposes. CAI’s tax-exempt ID number is 87-2461683.

We sincerely thank you for your support.

---

Disclaimer: The contents of this article are the sole responsibility of the author(s). CovertAction Institute, Inc. (CAI), including its Board of Directors (BD), Editorial Board (EB), Advisory Board (AB), staff, volunteers and its projects (including CovertAction Magazine) are not responsible for any inaccurate or incorrect statement in this article. This article also does not necessarily represent the views the BD, the EB, the AB, staff, volunteers, or any members of its projects.

Differing viewpoints: CAM publishes articles with differing viewpoints in an effort to nurture vibrant debate and thoughtful critical analysis. Feel free to comment on the articles in the comment section and/or send your letters to the Editors, which we will publish in the Letters column.

Copyrighted Material: This web site may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. As a not-for-profit charitable organization incorporated in the State of New York, we are making such material available in an effort to advance the understanding of humanity’s problems and hopefully to help find solutions for those problems. We believe this constitutes a ‘fair use’ of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. You can read more about ‘fair use’ and US Copyright Law at the Legal Information Institute of Cornell Law School.

Republishing: CovertAction Magazine (CAM) grants permission to cross-post CAM articles on not-for-profit community internet sites as long as the source is acknowledged together with a hyperlink to the original CovertAction Magazine article. Also, kindly let us know at info@CovertActionMagazine.com. For publication of CAM articles in print or other forms including commercial internet sites, contact: info@CovertActionMagazine.com.

By using this site, you agree to these terms above.

---

About the Author